October 31 Blog

Thanks, Bob, for the positive comments. I absolutely agree that the relationship between the union, the Board, and the administrators is crucial to student achievement. This is just another reason why trust and credibility is essential not only during negotiations but always. I learned a lot of useful information in this class. The presentations were all very informative. I was very glad to have the definition of past practice. I am always careful when making decisions to ensure I am not establishing past practice, so I feel better to know that it is not as easy to establish it as I thought.

Last Weekend

It got much easier to negotiate when we knew that our time together was drawing to an end. I doubt that it is always that easy. I do see the importance of trust in the negotiation process and the roles of stabilizers and destabilizers. I enjoyed the process, especially after we got on the same page with our documentation. I'll miss you guys!

Wow what a fantastic day. We got to see a culmination to the simulation. My experience with it up until yesterday was spotty until Dr. Closen had us combine our requests. The light bulbs went off and the angels began to sing for me. For what ever reason that method made the entire process click for me and I felt like I had a total understanding of the process. This led to our successful completion today. I appreciated all of the work that everybody put into their presentations and I learned a great deal from them. After watching them I am now not as sold as I was on using Interest based bargaining. It would have to be a great fit for the participants involved for sure. Thanks everybody for contributing to another great class. Dr. Closen it was a great experience. Thanks GS

Last Sunday Reflection

One other item from yesterday class that I forgot to mention was about the taping of executive session minutes. I now understand when they can be listen to and when it is not appropriate.

In todays class, I enjoyed watching the different you tube videos about the different topics. There is so much out there on collective bargaining, I think it is important to watch these and gain a better understanding.

unions

I appreciated Paula's presentation concerning unions. Thinking about what paula presented made me more aware that the teachers are not only the union, but they are our coworkers, and our partners to educate our students. We need to bargain with dignity and empathy and remember that we are in this together.

Saturday, 10/30/10 was a great class! The discussion about close session tapes and who can listen to them was new to me. I'm very glad I learned about that. The negotiation process really got going yesterday and led to some new knowledge as well. When Dr. Closen pointed out the real salary increase including steps it really opened my eyes. The true cost of raises needs to be understood. Our negotiation session yesterday was excellent too. We continue to refine our table behavior while learning more nuances of negotiating I really enjoyed yesterday's class while learning a great deal. Very relevant class.

Saturday's Simulation

It was a long day of simulation, but we did make progress. It's all down to the money now. What a huge responsibility to make sure that you calculate the increased salary and insurance correctly! It's important to get the school attorney involved and make sure that you get that straight.

October 30 Blog

The collective bargaining simulation is a real eye opener. I have learned an extreme amount about working in a team as well as the process for collective bargaining. I felt taking the time to put what we thought was our current agreement into one document was well worth it. We were all on the same page then. At times it was difficult to concede while caucusing when I didn't necessarily agree with one of my team members and difficult to keep quiet while talking with the board when I could understand their perspective about an issue but had to support our request. The individuals chosen for the negotiating team and how they click is key in getting the best contract.

simulation

What a day with the collective bargaining simulation. It really showed me how much time, thought and effort goes into this process. The details are very important and sometimes intense. When we worked with the salaries and figured out the projected raises it was a real learning experience. I knew that we had to compound the salaries but I forgot all about the steps. It was amazing how much the salary increased when the steps were added. I also felt we grew as a team on how to strategize and prepare after each caucus. We discuss how we should present the proposals as well as what the proposals should be. All in all I feel through this experience I have a much better idea on how to run a bargaining session.

Saturday 10/30/10

I have really enjoyed the simulation. I have a great amount by doing this exercise. I now feel like I know so much more. I also enjoyed brainstorming this morning on areas that we would like to see covered in the EDL program.

10/30

Simulation: I really appreciated once we got organized. I think it is a good idea to use technology to share proposals.

simulation

The teacher scattergram tied to the salary schedule is a must when it comes to negotiating terms of the contract. After messing with it, I am convinced that this is the only way to accurrately know just how much a contract is going to cost the district.

Simulation

The simulation is a good experience and necessary for us to understand the process, especially if we haven't been a part of a bargaining process before. I do agree that it is difficult to be part of the conversation when you are the recorder and things move so quickly that it is a challenge to keep up with the process accurately. And accuracy is so essential! I'm looking forward to the weekend to finish this simulation and see where we end up.

October 10 Blog

I also agree with the other posts. The simulation exercise is a great learning experience. Speaking from the recorder side, it is very difficult to take accurate notes and still be an active participant in the discussion. I think it is also difficult to think of all of the possible consequences of the language. I am the type of person who likes to take my time and think things through. While there was some "down" time, the process today was very fast paced for me.

Sunday 10/10/10

I have to agree with some of the other posters that experiencing the process has been great. I have always heard alot from both sides but I've never been at the table. One theme that is sinking in for me is preparation. It doesn't appear that you can ever do enough to be fully prepared. There are so many issues and variables of issues that come into play each time we meet that I can't imagine the outcome if one simply decided to wing it. How devastating that would be to your district and to yourself.

Simulation/Retirement Talk

I really enjoyed hearing about retirement and how this works for pay.

I also am enjoying the simulation. I am finding it interesting to see how this process works. I have never been involved with this process so this has been a great experience for me. I have found that this process can be agrumentative at times if it is let go.

Negotiation Simulation

The simulation today was an excellent experience. I learned the importance of perception, choice of words, tone, and body language. Analyzing the contract and knowing the CBA front to back will be important for me as superintendent. The board will to me for information and answers.

simulation

I am more comfortable with the process but the pace is slower than I expected. I understand why it is slow and tedious but it is still painful to do.

Financial Info (future or past)

As we bargain, it is vital to analyze trend data from the past as well as economic projections from a variety of sources. It is also important to put all the dollar figures out early and make sure both sides are in agreement as to which numbers are correct before you begin to negotiate salary and benefits.

Retirement Discussion/Simulation

I really enjoyed the retirement income talk that Dr. Closen walked us through at the beginning of class. It helped me to see where I am at and what would happen when I retire.

I am enjoying seeing the simulation. Having never negotiated before this is a great way to see how traditional bargaining works. I can see how people leave these meetings taking things personal. I can also see how you have to be extremely careful how you word things and being very specific. You need to make sure you spell everything out before meeting with the opposite side. This has made me see why people are using the IBB model.

IBB

It seems that in order for IBB to work there has to be a tremendous amount of trust between management and the union. If everyone continually communicates and works with the genuine best interest of everyone involved, IBB becomes a very awesome tool. However, it only takes one individual at the table to totally trash any chance of it working. Or even, one bad comment.

IBB

I really enjoyed listening to the speaker about IBB. I now have a much better understanding of this process and feel like this is something that I would like to partcipate in someday. I think this process is one that would leave the people participating a lot less frustrated.

IFT and IBB

It was interesting to hear from professionals coming from different viewpoints. It was good to listen from Mr. McLaughlin and hear the union perspective. He was very gracious but yet reminded us that he represents teachers in his responses to our questions.

I remembered being trained by Mr. Meehan 8 years ago in Carthage. I was really happy to have the review of IBB. I really don't know why a district would bargain any other way.

IBB and IFT

The speakers were very informative today. It was wonderful that Mr. McLaughlin let us ask him questions. It was interesting that he never took his union hat off. Two key points I noticed from the presentation were to be totally prepared for negotiations before they begin and make sure all contract language is crystal clear. I appreciated the slides on interview questions. I felt they were excellent questions to ask. It is important to know this type of information when you are making a decision about accepting a position in a district.

I believe that IBB is truly the way to go if at all possible. This opinion was secured during the several exercises we completed in class. This process allows everyone to have a voice in the negotiations. Positive outcomes can result from this type of bargining. This explains why IBB is also called a win-win process.

IBB

The advice on throw away positions was interesting. In the past I have been on union teams that purposefully developed insincere proposals so we could use them as concessions. Mr. Meehan's point about how this strategy compromises the negotiating teams credibility hit home with me. Have any of you served on a union team that developed throw away proposals? Was this strategy successful? Did the management team discern that they were throw away positions?

IFT

Both speakers were very informative. The IFT speaker gave us a lot to think about. I really appreciate the potential questions to ask future district employers. Also the excercises really helped me to understand IBB

10/9/10 Blog Gavin S.

Tom Mclaughlin's presentation really opened my eyes toward the Union's side of negotiating. He was very professional and knowledgable and its very easy to believe that negotiations would be very professional and orderly if he was involved. His discussion of past practice really stuck with me. It is something that must be monitored. I also appreciated his point that you should develop quality relationships with your Union reps so that your life in management is much smoother.
Mr. Meehan's presentation on IBB was very interesting. I think it would be a very scholarly and professional method to negotiate a new contract. I am interested in using this method as I move forward.

October 9 Blog

Tom provided some very informative information and answered several questions that have come up over my time as a principal. I particularly enjoyed Jerry Meehan. Interest Based Bargaining seems like a friendlier, less hostile type of negotiating that would lead to a better union/board relationship after an agreement is reached. It seems that this would result in better morale and, in turn, higher academic achievement. I realize that establishing trust is extremely important in either the traditional approach or with Interest Based Bargaining. The exercises were awesome and gave us a hands-on look at it. I was extremely interested in the consistent definition of past practice from Dr. Closen and Jerry Meehan. This is very different from what I have been told in the past, and I am glad to know that it is not as easy as I once thought to establish past practice. Knowing the criteria that it has to meet to make it past practice is very helpful.

August 29 Blog

I appreciate the opportunity to listen to outside speakers who are experts in their area and have a lot of experience in collective bargaining. I really enjoyed listening to Jay Greening. He gave a lot of practical advise like don't always say no, preparation is critical, provide only one sheet of finances to the union to keep it simple, etc. One comment he made that I completely agree with and will try to do as a superintendent is, "The best districts are one where district office and union leadership have a good relationship." I believe this can head off or resolve a lot of issues before they ever begin or explode; thus, making negotiations easier and quicker. I don't think it has to be an us against them type of relationship.

Board vs. Teachers

Most of my career I have been a teacher. During one of my last years as a teacher, I was on the teachers' negotiating team and was trained in interest-based bargaining. I had never been on a negotiating team before, but I liked this process because it felt friendlier, and we needed friendlier after a strike had taken place at the end of the previous contract negotiations. I'm a pretty honest up front person, and it bothered me when the attorney who spoke to us at the last class shared that he had prepared one salary comparison for the teachers and a different comparison for the board. It just doesn't feel quite honest. It's just really hard for me to change my thinking to the administration point of view.

EDL 623 Collective Bargaining Fall 2010: An attorney's point of view

Tina,

What ground rules do you think are most important?
EDL 623 Collective Bargaining Fall 2010: An attorney's point of view: "What an interesting presentation from Mr. Greening. I didn't get a chance to ask him but I think he is Avon's attorney. I talked to him a co..."

Sunday's Lesson

Listening to the attorney made me realize the danger of having balances that appear TOO healthy. Anytime a district has a nice little nest egg set aside it creates the impression that they are holding out on the union. This makes membership feel like the district is "winning" with regards to negtiations. This normally results in them digging their heels in a little bit to get themselves a bigger piece of the pie.

This further deepens my belief to have healthy balances but not too healthy. Only ask the tax payers for what you need and then the union cannot ask you for more than you have.

Sunday Reflection

My aha moment was listening to the attorney talk about real life situatiosn from his bargaining for differentschool districts. It makes since to share information and to make sure it is in a manner that everyone can understand it. I enjoyed hearing his view of ways to make things easy to understand. I liked his examples that he shared with us. Having never had to bargaining for a contract before I felt like this information was great!

An attorney's point of view

What an interesting presentation from Mr. Greening. I didn't get a chance to ask him but I think he is Avon's attorney. I talked to him a couple of times with our superintendent on the phone and I recognize his voice. I've never been involved at the table during a negotiation but the more I gain knowledge on the subject, the more interested I am to become involved. The strategies needed to prepare for bargaining intrigue me. Every time you receive a proposal or counter proposal a whole new set of strategies need to be developed. I love a challenge and this would definitely be one.
I now realize how much preparation is needed for both sides to be ready for negotiations. I also realize that the ground rules are extremely important and if done well can move the negotiations forward in a positive direction.

doing homework

I appreciate the guest taking time out of his weekend. I found it extremely beneficial. In particular the data gathering and how to show the data in a simple and persuasive manner is great to know.

Sunday 8/29 AHA moment

Mr. Greening's presentation has made significant impact on my thought process concerning the negotiation process. The first point concerns preparation. The main reason that negotiations are unproductive or ultimately fail is a lack of preparation by one side or the other. I can only imagine how damaging it would be for both sides to be unprepared in any area-but certainly with anything regarding finances. If a Supt. were to make a significant gaff during negotiations regarding a loss of funds to the district then I could see that leading to that person's dismissal. A Superintendent has a key responsibility to prepare the Board but also make sure the necessary information is available and readily understood by the Union side as well. The second point which is connected to the first is to have a principled position for both sides. This is not possible if each side is not prepared with the necessary information. A principled position can quickly lead to productive negotiations and a proper settlement that satisfies both sides. GS

EDL 623 Collective Bargaining Fall 2010: open negotiations

EDL 623 Collective Bargaining Fall 2010: open negotiations: "I would like to know more about what is normally shared during negotiations. Does the district open their books? Are districts willing to be..."

salaries, district fund balances, major expenses i.e. insurance, benefits, board policy, topics from past negotiations, hypothetical salary schedules, what other information do you think teachers would want?

ah-ha moment

My ah-ha moment was when we talked about the difference between mediation and arbitration. It reminded me of my strike experience in 2001. The mediator that Dr. Closen mentioned came to the district. It brought back painful memories of being in a strike.

First class

I really enjoyed the conversation we had about TRS. My long range plan is to someday teach for a college. Now you tell me that I might have to move to another state for Certs to count toward retirement. I also know that your discussion on reading the newspaper daily is important. I need to take time everyday to keep up with the news around me. The last thing is the conversation we had about Illini Bluffs. It is hard to believe that a school board could make that kind of decision concerning negotiations. The damage that could take place between the union and the school district is tremendous. It will be interesting to see how this year's negotiation proceeds.
In closing, I agree that relationships with your staff is very important. Someone told me at the beginning of my career that make friends with your support staff first. This advice has been very beneficial for me.

My aha moment

Dr. Closens advice about the importance of new board member orientation. School board elections are next April and we may have two new board members. Educating and training board members can help make your life easier.

Bob and the Clock

"If you are lookin' at the clock and the other guy is looking at the calendar, you are not in the position of power." This is one of the items that I picked up in class today. It is equally wise to avoid looking at a clock in a room with Bob. For he is prone to change it so that it READS to his advantage!

Regardless...the moral seems to be take your time (and be on the look-out for Bobs).

open negotiations

I would like to know more about what is normally shared during negotiations. Does the district open their books? Are districts willing to be flexible as long as it does not efffect the bottom line?

Aha moment!

The aha moment was for me when it was talked about the difference between unfair labor practice and a grievance. I now have a better understanding of this concept. I have been involved with the grievance process before but never the unfair labor practice.

August 28 Blog

Throughout my career, I have sat on both sides of the table during negotiations. As a teacher I actively negotiated. As an administrator, I sat in the back of the room and observed the negotiations and joined the administrative negotiating team when speaking to the attorney. I learned a lot through both of these exeriences. One of our discussions in class regarding the amount of preparation that needs to be done by the superintendent prior to negotiations confirmed what I witnessed. Our superintendent had many financial spreadsheets prepared with different scenarios. I would be interested in obtaining electronic copies of templates of various spreadsheets that superintendents have used when preparing for negotiations. What I observed during our last negotiation was very different than the simulation discussion we had in class today. I did not observe the beginning where ground rules were established. I am interested to learn what discussion took place with regards to ground rules. During the negotiating session that I witnessed both the district attorney and the IEP representative were present and most of the negotiating at the table took place between the two of them.

Class 8/28

My aha moment today concerned the discussion about the two times that a Superintendent can be vulnerable to being fired. Those two times concerned messing up levies and negotiations. It is not acceptable to be unprepared for all aspects of negotiations. The example of Illini Bluffs negotiation snafu highlighted this. They were charged with unfair labor practices after previously agreeing to tenative contract. The resulting threat of a strike and legal issues made that Superintendent look bad and probably at least temporarily damaged his reputation. Prepare. Prepare Prepare.

Come on Tim, we are waiting

I really like technology, I will help Tim catch up